Seriously, can you just imagine if Hillary owned a hotel, never installed sprinklers, there was a fire and someone died? Fox News would be demanding her head, Infowars would be non-stop insanity, congress would be holding endless hearings, and half the people on this site would be calling her a murderer. . (+57)
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#819016)
says Him on Apr 10th 18 (#2744129)
Proof of what? You can't prove a hypothetical. The point being Trump got away with it, no remorse at all. Someone died in the fire and he bragged about how well his building was was built.
And people say he gets a **** rap with MSM. Ha! It's crickets out there.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744131)
Think - this post is not about what seems to have happened at Trump tower. If that's what "Him" wanted - well seriously, it is everyone on every news channel.
This post is about that no one is calling him a murderer, or more to the point, it is about my guess that if it was Hillary instead of trump - you, among many others, would be calling for her to be arrested.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744209)
Arrested? On what grounds?
For owning a building that's legal under current NYC fire codes? "Curiouser and curiouser," said Alice.
says Thinkerbell on Apr 10th 18 (#2744247)
And here, Vic, is what NBC tried to do.
Here is a more factual account from the NY Times:
says Thinkerbell on Apr 10th 18 (#2744251)
no, I want you to prove what the GOP, Infowars, Congress, FOX or half the people here would say. link please
says Him on Apr 10th 18 (#2744256)
So no proof more fake news
says Him on Apr 10th 18 (#2744151)
You sir are very confused. If you think the fire is fake news than I feel sorry for you. If you think my 'guess' as to what would have happened if Hillary owned the hotel - well that is just silly, how can a guess be 'fake news'. Are you saying I need to show proof that I really do guess that?
Get a life.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744210)
you seem angry
says Him on Apr 10th 18 (#2744252)
You seem to agree with my post or else you would hit the disagree button.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744332)
The building is well built but when it was built 35+ years ago , fitting sprinklers was not a necessity or legally required but Trump changed his thinking later on and fitted them in his other buildings...
says JD on Apr 11th 18 (#2744725)
From the article:
Donald J. Trump, one of the developers who initially fought the sprinkler law, said yesterday that he had decided to spend $3 million to install sprinklers in all 350 units of Trump World Tower, a high-rise apartment complex that he is building across from the United Nations.
But Mr. Trump stressed that he did not believe the law would reduce fire fatalities.
''People feel safer with sprinklers,'' he said. ''But the problem with the bill is that it doesn't address the buildings that need sprinklers the most. If you look at the fire deaths in New York, almost all of them are in one- or two-family houses.''
says Maze on Apr 10th 18 (#2744190)
Confused here. Who is talking about Trump besides you?
This post say that I think you would react differently if Hillary owned the building. It says nothing about Trump. Are you feeling guilty for loving such an evil man?
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744211)
YOU are talking about Trump, Vic.
If the building that had the fire were owned by Joe Schmoe (Schmoe Tower?), you would never have made this post.
says Thinkerbell on Apr 10th 18 (#2744248)
Please just vote on my post.
It is starting to look like everyone agrees with this outrageous supposition.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744330)
At the time the building was built, sprinklers were not required. However, after 9/11, when it became apparent that no fire equipment could reach those upper floors, the City wanted to require that buildings over a certain height be retrofitted with sprinklers. Trump lobbied against that along with, I'm sure, a number of other real estate moguls.
Having said that, I agree that if it was the Clintons or Obama, the GOP would be screaming bloody murder.
says Linnster on Apr 10th 18 (#2744149)
if it was the Clintons or Obama, the GOP would be screaming bloody murder.
says Him on Apr 10th 18 (#2744153)
I don't have to have a link to my thoughts. Hope you aren't terribly put out by that.
says Linnster on Apr 10th 18 (#2744352)
No. You answered my question. You have no proof to your claim as to what the GOP would do, as I suspected. Must be hate driven.
says Him on Apr 11th 18 (#2744554)
All those decades of NYC skyscrapers, and no one figured out until after 9/11 that fire equipment couldn't reach those upper floors?
says Thinkerbell on Apr 10th 18 (#2744154)
says Linnster on Apr 10th 18 (#2744187)
I guess the word from Hollywood never made it back to NYC, Linn. Figures.
says Thinkerbell on Apr 10th 18 (#2744250)
LOL - Linn, "Him" wants you to prove your 'opinion'. . Can't you provide a link directly to your thought process?
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744212)
You weren't there. neither was she.
says Him on Apr 10th 18 (#2744254)
I was in NYC when the Towers went down. Where were you?
says Linnster on Apr 10th 18 (#2744354)
What does that have to do with calling Hillary a murderer? Stay on topic, please.
says Him on Apr 11th 18 (#2744555)
Stay on topic? How about taking your own advice. You were the one who said I wasn't there when the Towers went down.
Seems to me, you are just looking for an argument and I have no patience for nonsense like that.
says Linnster on Apr 11th 18 (#2744565)
Im participating in a discussion. That is what this site is about.
says Him on Apr 11th 18 (#2744619)
What does that have to do with calling Hillary a murderer? Stay on topic, please.
says Him on Apr 11th 18 (#2744556)
What does that have to do with calling Hillary a murderer? Stay on topic, please.
says Him on Apr 11th 18 (#2744557)
You're weaseling again, Vic.
It is perfectly ok to ask a person on what factual basis they based their opinion.
If they can't provide any, maybe their opinion was based on hot air.
says Thinkerbell on Apr 10th 18 (#2744257)
yup , and he is always asking for proof or links. What does the left always say? "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts"
It's not "fact" what the GOP or FOX, Infowars, or anyone here would say. Maybe the rule is one sided.
says Him on Apr 10th 18 (#2744260)
This is not presented as a 'fact' - it is a guess as to what people would say "if" . Can't be proven unless it actually happens. Don't agree then vote disagree and move on.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744323)
It's is ok to ask. But it is not possible to 'prove' and opinion. It is my opinion. That I state it is all the proof there is.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744326)
You're still weaseling, Vic.
If it is merely your opinion, then why did you categorically say that if Hillary owned a hotel with no sprinklers and someone died, "Fox News would be demanding her head, Infowars would be non-stop insanity, congress would be holding endless hearings, and half the people on this site would be calling her a murderer." (boldface added)
Not "I think they would", not "maybe would", not even "probably would", but just categorically "would".
(And this from the man who often tells us there are no absolutes that we can know.)
says Thinkerbell on Apr 11th 18 (#2744475)
Well miss smarty pants, if you already know I don't believe in absolutes then I think you can figure out that I also can't predict the future.
I understand that you hold me up as some godlike beacon of wisdom but I assure you that I am just an ordinary person.
says VicZinc on Apr 11th 18 (#2744480)
Yet another dodge, Vic?
If you can't predict the future, then why did you categorically say that if Hillary owned a hotel with no sprinklers and someone died, "Fox News would be demanding her head, Infowars would be non-stop insanity, congress would be holding endless hearings, and half the people on this site would be calling her a murderer." (boldface added)
says Thinkerbell on Apr 11th 18 (#2744483)
Speaking of dodges. If you don't vote on this post I assume you agree with it. So why are you arguing?
says VicZinc on Apr 11th 18 (#2744485)
Ok, I officially disagreed.
Now, why are you violating your own precept?
says Thinkerbell on Apr 11th 18 (#2744486)
The post says "imagine" perhaps you can not imagine those things, but I can.
says VicZinc on Apr 11th 18 (#2744508)
You said "imagine" a scenario where Hillary owned a hotel without sprinklers where someone died. Then you said what WOULD happen as a consequence.
Imagine Hillary flapped her arms. Then she WOULD fly to the moon, according to your dodgy logic.
says Thinkerbell on Apr 11th 18 (#2744545)
I can imagine that.
Did not think someone as smart as you would need me to repeat the word imagine in every clause. It is a hypothetical, it requires you to imagine it.
I'll try again, hey Thinkerbell, close your eyes and imagine.
says VicZinc on Apr 11th 18 (#2744547)
Sorry, Vic, I'm not buying your latest dodge.
You meant "half the people on this site WOULD [necessarily] be calling her a murderer," etc.
If you had said "Imagine Hillary owned a hotel..." etc., "...and then imagine half the people on this site would be calling her a murderer," etc., it would have spoiled the whole purpose of your post.
In logic, only the antecedent is hypothetical, the consequent necessarily follows from it, if the logic is correct. Anyone with a math degree should know that, Vic (if they are honest, that is). Instead, you are now pretending you made up two hypothetical statements with no logical connection.
says Thinkerbell on Apr 11th 18 (#2744561)
I hope he's not holding his breath.
says Linnster on Apr 10th 18 (#2744356)
It's an odd story. 67 year old guy, bought his apartment in 1996. He was an "art collector," not sure if that was a job or a hobby. He went bankrupt in 2015 but somehow kept his place.
When Trump began his run for President, the guy didn't like the additional security at the building, said it was like living in an armed camp. Got a hate on for Trump at some point and thought he was bad for the country. He had become depressed about living there and regularly said "I have to get out of here." He had apparently been trying to sell, but was unable to find a buyer at the price he wanted.
There were no sprinklers and he did not have any smoke detectors. Building management were alerted to the fire by smoke detectors in the HVAC system.
He was found "unconscious and unresponsive" at the scene, and died in hospital. The cause of the fire has yet to be determined.
So was this event simply an unfortunate accident, or was it suicide wrapped up in a political stunt? I'm really not sure, but I think there's a solid chance it's the latter.
The assumption so far seems to be he died as a result of the fire, smoke inhalation presumably, but they probably don't have a toxicology report yet. If he had overdosed on a drug and they assumed he was suffering from smoke inhalation, that might have been part of the reason he died in hospital. I'm no doctor, but I don't think the treatments for smoke inhalation and drug overdose are interchangeable.
Causing a fire in Trump tower would not only hit Trump in the pocket book, both by repairs and also by the fact the Trump organization will probably be compelled to install sprinklers, it would also be viewed favorably by those on the wild-eyed end of the left, a way of immortalizing himself in a grand final act of defiance.
Meh, I don't know, just a theory
As for Clinton, the right would probably be torn between wanting to attack her and not wanting to create a giant expense for a bunch of building owners.
says Maze on Apr 10th 18 (#2744189)
Good analysis. Thanks.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744214)
I believe in most large buildings where the apartments are owned by individuals that they would bear the expense of the sprinklers being added. Just like condos in an HOA.
says Will_Janitor on Apr 10th 18 (#2744217)
I could see that happening. But then she already earned that from Benghazi so it's sort of moot. :)
says Will_Janitor on Apr 10th 18 (#2744218)
and about 3 or 4 other events. Vince Foster, James McDougal, Seth Rich and about 34 others according to some.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744229)
I'm sure there has been some piling on, but nothing seems to stick to the Clintons.
It looks like it is very dangerous to be her body guard too.
THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE ALSO DEAD
35 – Major William S. Barkley, Jr.
36 – Captain Scott J . Reynolds
37 – Sgt. Brian Hanley
38 – Sgt. Tim Sabel
39 – Major General William Robertson
40 – Col. William Densberger
41 – Col. Robert Kelly
42 – Spec. Gary Rhodes
43 – Steve Willis
44 – Robert Williams
45 – Conway LeBleu
46 – Todd McKeehan
says Will_Janitor on Apr 10th 18 (#2744233)
But Hillary probably IS a murderer. I recall people ending up dead: http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/20...-check-it-out/
says JerryHendrickson on Apr 10th 18 (#2744224)
and thank you! We have a winner here!
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744230)
An amazingly long list of mysterious deaths that cast suspicion on the Clintons. 47. Just like the Bill Cosby rape and sexual assault accusers, the high number of alleged victims seems like there has to be some guilt.
says JerryHendrickson on Apr 10th 18 (#2744242)
I saw that way back, seems a lot of people who were associated with the Clinton's mysteriously died.
says SynysterGates on Apr 10th 18 (#2744255)
I seldom believe in conspiracies, but this one in particular seems far fetched. Bill couldn't even get a **** without the entire world finding out.
says PhilboydStudge on Apr 10th 18 (#2744456)
The fact remains that all of those people are dead and not from natural causes. It seems impossible that it could be chance.
says JerryHendrickson on Apr 11th 18 (#2744559)
Now people are so smart & savy that they KNOW what someone would say, think, or do in the event of something that never happened, never will happen. Impressive
No one here can prove what the GOP or FOX would say.
says Him on Apr 10th 18 (#2744253)
Correct. Nor can they prove what they would not say.
says VicZinc on Apr 10th 18 (#2744327)
Yes I can imagine. The Republicans would be screaming for more investigations. ...put her in jail.... but they let Trump off the hook. But if it was Trump's apartment on fire and the fire department couldn't reach it, then Trump would be suing the NYFD. It sure wouldn't be his fault that he didn't have any sprinklers....geez.
says StarzAbove on Apr 10th 18 (#2744273)
Whew! Good thing the duct detector system worked, eh?
By the way - Congress is already having endless hearings! And, it's all based on vapor! Be sure to tell Mueller about this - maybe the tenant was Russian!
says Budwick on Apr 10th 18 (#2744315)
Yes, Bud, it did work, but you'd never know if you only read the headline of this CNN story.
says Thinkerbell on Apr 11th 18 (#2744541)
I think you are probably right, except maybe for congress holding endless hearings and half the people here calling her a murderer part. It would likely be a lesser percentile of people here who would do that, but I could of course be wrong about that.
says Piper2 on Apr 10th 18 (#2744430)
it's not a hotel
says Neanderthal_Momdoer on Apr 11th 18 (#2744529)
Imagine if it was. This post is asking if you can imagine. If you can't imagine then, OK.
says VicZinc on Apr 11th 18 (#2744534)
I live in Reality
as in this example
would you bring a baseball bat to a gunfight?
if not why not
Pennsylvania School District Arms Its Teachers — With 16-Inch Baseball Bats
Reality says no
just Amagine swinging at the bullets from 25 feet away
says Neanderthal_Momdoer on Apr 12th 18 (#2744941)
IOW you don't have a story. This post is a waste of electrons.
says that_guy on Apr 11th 18 (#2744560)
You want stories about fires? Go here. Russia has been having one every day.
says that_guy on Apr 11th 18 (#2744562)
OMG, more collusion with the Russians?
says Thinkerbell on Apr 11th 18 (#2744814)
We get it Vic, you despise President Trump...therefore why you were not able to 'resist' in USING that tragedy at a Trump property for you to once again bash our President, this time by you posting a hypothetical question pondering a WHAT IF scenario had Hillary Clinton owned that building...blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Whereas IF Hillary had owned that property (where in her eyes THIS TIME only ONE person died), she would have said "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE AT THIS POINT!"...as she so PASSIONATLEY stated while being questioned about the 4 Americans who died in Benghazi under HER watch as our country's SOS.
says Gronk17 on Apr 11th 18 (#2744586)
Where was Michael Cohen when this fire happened? How about Cohen's hired thugs? Looks like a case of murder to me.
says Flrdsgns on Apr 11th 18 (#2744625)
You might be right. Trump might have wanted that guy out of his building, so decided a fire might do it. lol
My comment makes about as much sense as some of these others on here defending Trump. And trying to pick a fight with the OP for a good post. I'm sure if it was Trump's apartment on fire, there would be hell to pay!
says StarzAbove on Apr 11th 18 (#2744793)
Hey you're onto something...it MUST have been Cohen who hired Trump's "thugs" to start that fire at a Trump property in a colluded attempt to take the focus off of the Stormy Daniels scandal lol....which ONLY our country's MSM, the NUTS on the Left and the Never Trump NUTS on the Right care about!
says Gronk17 on Apr 12th 18 (#2744994)
While buildings are in construction and on completion, they are inspected and passed by many different people ...fire and safety are among the most important and this building must have been passed...these are the people who are to blame, not the owner , even if it was Trump or Clinton ...the people who live there can easily fit their own smoke detectors...
says JD on Apr 11th 18 (#2744684)
You are correct, JD.
But of course when he realized that, Vic would add yet another hypothetical, e.g.: Imagine that Hillary paid off the inspectors to overlook the safety violations of the building.
says Thinkerbell on Apr 11th 18 (#2744726)
No new hypothetical needed. OP is exactly what I intended it to be. POTD with 91% agreement and 81 comments. Can't really beat that with this crowd.
~~ dislocates shoulder patting himself on the back ~~
says VicZinc on Apr 11th 18 (#2744731)
You should put that on your career resume when you apply for a job at CNN or MSNBC. They'll be very impressed.
says Thinkerbell on Apr 11th 18 (#2744737)
Ever heard the axiom - 'Figures lie and liars figure'?
How many socks voted on this Vic?
says Budwick on Apr 11th 18 (#2744755)
Good question, let me check...
but it looks like about 15 people voted who were either not members yet or logged out of their accounts to vote. Pretty cool.
says VicZinc on Apr 11th 18 (#2744765)
Yes, of course. Voting 'non-citizens'.
I'm convinced - not.
says Budwick on Apr 11th 18 (#2744817)
I thought you bought into the millions of non-registared voters.
says VicZinc on Apr 11th 18 (#2744868)
I believe they exist.
I don't agree that they should.
says Budwick on Apr 12th 18 (#2745025)
looks like 26 of them voted here.
That, by the way is how we get new members. Let them vote and they will be hooked, it drives them to become 'citizens' so they can thumbs up all your comments.
says VicZinc on Apr 12th 18 (#2745125)
Cool! Democrats have the same kind of plan for new American citizens - so THEY can vote for democrats! Works for them too.
says Budwick on Apr 12th 18 (#2745130)
says Will_Janitor on Apr 11th 18 (#2744807)
Following Fox News/Infowars reactions during the years, what they chose to be angry about and not, what they chose to hide or not talk about, what they're constantly talking about, how they talk about this and that, and all that, and remembering the same about some members in this site, I'll say that's a pretty good guess.
says Sofia on Apr 12th 18 (#2744964)
Would have made a difference if Hillary had computers with self destruct buttons. You would assume these exist since “Get Smart and Mission Impossible assumed this was the norm. Though.. nope. Had Interns and higher ups smashing hard drives with hammers. No, really. Actually happened vs hypotheticals. Though entertaining either way. :)
says DW2 on Apr 13th 18 (#2745360)