If someone was harassing a person you loved, you MIGHT shove them away. (+1)
says Piper2 on Jul 26th 18 (#821561)
You're right, Piper .... it's easy to be very logical and calm when you're not involved. And I pray that I wouldn't react by shoving, but I can't guarantee it.
says JanHaskell on Jul 27th 18 (#2796878)
Thank you, Jan, for answering in a thoughtful way.
says Piper2 on Jul 27th 18 (#2796889)
Right on, Jan! The feisty girl from within inside comes out!
says Sir_Whatz on Aug 5th 18 (#2799704)
So he picked a fight with a woman and her kid over a parking space, when there were other empty parking spaces, then when the husband came to defend his family in a conflict initiated by the gun owner, the coward with a gun shot and killed him???
That doesn't sound like "standing your ground" or even self-defense, that sounds a lot like negligent homicide.
All over a parking space, how pathetic...
says ForkNdaRoad on Jul 27th 18 (#2796887)
Pretty much, yes, on all counts.
says Piper2 on Jul 27th 18 (#2796903)
says ForkNdaRoad on Jul 28th 18 (#2797126)
It is beyond my own personal understanding, how anyone could consider this a justified shooting. I read some comments in the articles posted about this incident though, and it's pretty clear why some people think it's A-okay.
This happened in my "neck of the woods", pretty much, and it's far from the first time a senseless fatal shooting has been defended as "standing your ground".
says Piper2 on Jul 28th 18 (#2797147)
I can't reconcile picking a fight that leads to someone's death, whatever the circumstance.
Honestly, I'd have trouble taking a life. I'm sure given the right circumstance I'm capable of it and that really disturbs me. But in earnest, there is no possession important enough to me that I can justify taking a life. Perhaps to protect a the life of a loved one, but even then... That's something you have to live with for the rest of your life, you know? Justified or not. I guess it just isn't in me...
Sorry to hear that. Having to share that space with someone so careless would make me particularly uneasy also.
says ForkNdaRoad on Jul 28th 18 (#2797168)
Neither can I, as I'm sure you know. I've agonized over killing an insect, when there was no reasonable alternative.
I've pondered that as well, under what circumstances I might be feel justified killing someone. I have little doubt that I would be able to if were clearly to defend the life of a loved one, or my own. I also have little doubt that it would be disturbing still, to live with afterwards.
It happened in a nearby town, Tink, but thank you. It does make me very uneasy, though, that so many hotheads are carrying a gun around...and are so willing to use them at the drop of a hat.
says Piper2 on Jul 28th 18 (#2797305)
Ahh, well I certainly understand that. I've considered the same being here in TX and all. But I haven't seen much of that around her. I don't know if it's because this is TX and there's the castle doctrine or that I'm just fortunate to be in an area without much violence.
I've hazarded my kid about it though, it's a different world than I recall as a kid. That's for sure.
says ForkNdaRoad on Jul 29th 18 (#2797347)
It's definitely a different world than when I was a kid, in both good and not so good ways. People carrying guns around killing people over petty disputes...that definitely seems to have increased in frequency during my lifetime, and in the last several years. It has always been going on, I know, and maybe we just hear about it more now.
says Piper2 on Jul 29th 18 (#2797349)
I've wondered that too, if it's just that we're more aware of it given our greater access to information and the fact that everyone's carrying a camera around these days.
But like you, I think there's an increase in events like this as well.
says ForkNdaRoad on Jul 29th 18 (#2797381)
She parked in a handicapped space when there were other spots available. When a concerned citizen asked her to move her car, she decided to get into an argument with him instead of just moving. When the assailant exited the store, he immediately assaulted the concerned citizen rather than engaging in any sort of dialogue with him. Injured and frightened (who wouldn't be if they were just blindsided and shoved to the pavement?), the concerned citizen acted within his legal rights to defend himself. It was an unfortunate situation brought about by a series of bad decisions on the part of the woman in the car and the assailant. That's reality, case closed, don't get violent with people in Florida or you might die.
says Maze on Aug 3rd 18 (#2799396)
Was the citizen concern enough to notice the multiple other empty parking spaces next to her car? Just curious...
I'm well aware this was over a parking space. I hardly think that justifies it.
says ForkNdaRoad on Aug 4th 18 (#2799569)
That space is reserved for disabled people. If she had any respect, she'd have taken another space without being asked.
But nobody got shot over a parking space, rewatching the video, if that guy hadn't pulled a gun just then, he'd almost certainly have been the victim of a serious assault, probably by 2 people.
Have you ever been sucker punched? Had the shit kicked out of you in the ** street? Because I have. My own mother didn't recognize me at the hospital, I was permanently disfigured, I could have died. I had PTSD for years. Don't ** tell me that guy had no right to defend himself.
says Maze on Aug 4th 18 (#2799581)
No one said parking in a handicapped space is okay when you aren't handicapped, only that there were multiple other empty spots to park in right next to her. That's a fact.
And yes, it was entirely because of a parking spot as he initiated the confrontation because of a parking spot. That too is a fact.
No, no I haven't had the shit kicked out of me in the street. I try my level best not to initiate such confrontations and I avoid them to the best of my ability. I also don't try to police other people, so that helps too.
I'm sorry for what happened to you, but I didn't do that and I never suggested it was appropriate, so don't **** project your past experience onto me.
The fact remains, the guy was put into that situation as the results of his initiating the whole confrontation. Everything that followed was the result of that mistake and someone died because of it.
says ForkNdaRoad on Aug 4th 18 (#2799587)
It was verbal, the assailant made it physical. I'd rather he didn't get killed over that BS, but as you might imagine, my level of sympathy for that kind of behavior is very low.
All the assailant had to do was get in the car and leave, but as soon as he left the store, the woman got out of the car, and the while the would-be victim was distracted by her, the assailant blindsided him. I believe they were about to work the guy over. That was their choice, all they had to do was get in the car and leave.
If anyone is to blame, it's the woman in the car. She parked in the handicapped spot, she refused to move her car and turned the request to move it into an argument, and she decided to leave the car when her man left the store. It was all a product of her ** attitude and her ** decisions, she only has herself to blame. Honestly, the only people I feel bad for in this situation are the shooter and his family, and the attacker's children.
says Maze on Aug 4th 18 (#2799649)
The woman and child were in the car roll up windows and blow the horn he can't do much . So the other guy comes out and starts a real fight and gets shot. He should have called the police - But he was parked wrong so he didn't. Don't steal handicap unless you are and have a plate or sticker. The guy who was yelling would have done better to call the police then the car parked in handicap would be ticketed or towed.
says LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred on Aug 18th 18 (#2803448)
we are ALL one accident away from a wheelchair
things of the past
says Neanderthal_Momdoer on Jul 27th 18 (#2796893)
No, common decency and "Manners" are definitely not a thing of the past. Less "common" these days...for sure.
says Piper2 on Jul 27th 18 (#2796904)
parking in a handicap space while knowing one shouldn't is plain decency
Manners are always a good thing
I don't see common ground with that person
decency and common sense will not be ingaged
says Neanderthal_Momdoer on Jul 27th 18 (#2796907)
I'm sure many of us agree, that parking in a handicap space when one doesn't need to is not cool.
Whoever that Willie guy is...I'm sure there are relatively few people who see common ground with his disturbing views.
says Piper2 on Jul 27th 18 (#2797073)
*parking in a handicap space while knowing one shouldn't is plain decency*
I assume you intended to say "INdecency"?
says Sir_Whatz on Aug 5th 18 (#2799705)
says Neanderthal_Momdoer on Aug 6th 18 (#2799937)
there is common ground to be found
says Neanderthal_Momdoer on Sep 14th 18 (#2810313)
Jacobs shouldn't have parked there - no excuses but it should not involve the loss of a life.
says ozzyboy on Jul 27th 18 (#2796896)
It sure sounds like parts of that story are missing. The young man slammed another man to the ground, the man with the gun shoots the other man who slammed him, that's murder, not self defense. The man with the gun was not in a life threating situation, that's two men fighting.
That would never fly here.
says Fredrik on Jul 27th 18 (#2796959)
Seems to me that the only part of the story missing , is what was actually said between the parties involved.
says Piper2 on Jul 28th 18 (#2797133)
That is the part missing for sure.
says Fredrik on Aug 2nd 18 (#2799024)
Think before you park where you don't belong, able bodied people CAN and SHOULD park away from the building. . No that woman was at fault for parking in a handi cap space. her guy got killed over such a stupid thing.
says LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred on Jul 28th 18 (#2797250)
I do agree that that woman was at fault for parking in a space marked "handicapped". That someone killed "her guy" because he shoved him for clearly harassing that woman with a baby and young child in that car....no, that is definitely no one's fault but the the man who used his gun and killed a man just because he was shoved....
says Piper2 on Jul 29th 18 (#2797335)
News said the guy dropped the offender to the ground. I would be frightenedif someone threw me to the ground, but I would shoot them in the leg - not to kill. I am a good shot.
says LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred on Jul 28th 18 (#2797251)
I'm glad to hear that you wouldn't do that...fatally shoot someone just because they shoved you.
says Piper2 on Jul 29th 18 (#2797351)
I would have ignored him, until he tried to put a hand on me, or advanced toward my wife or kids. The impulsive body slam is a mistake. There are far more effective, efficient, and fun ways to physically neutralize a rowdy without the drama of a body slam. A body slam, a shove, or a punch only makes tempers flare and a gun drawn. I'd have "taken care" of it (or tried) in a manner that inflicted plenty of discomfort , while allowing for a brief cooling off period.
This was NOT 'stand your ground'. You don't shoot someone because they got the drop on you. You either fight, talk, or walk away. Even in the so called "uncivilized" Old Wild West, shooting an unarmed person was cowardice, branded for life. I live by those "barbaric" frontier rules if and whenever I can.
says HELLOwithSMILE on Jul 29th 18 (#2797460)
Well, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have shoved him, either. Seems to me though, that Drejka already had advanced towards McGlockton's 'wife' and kids...rather aggressively too, it looks like from his hand gestures. I absolutely agree, that shoving the man was far from the best way to react to the situation.
says Piper2 on Jul 29th 18 (#2797546)
I don't know which hand gestures you are referring to, but a guy who spouts off with arms flailing gestures of any kind is tailor made for my likely reaction.
Anyway, mistakes were made. The biggest mistake ...panic, or losing one's cool, by BOTH parties. One because he was young, macho, and stupid. The other because he had a gun and knew it.
If McG chose to bounce Drejka's head off the parking lot, he should have finished the job and not let him get back up to attack again.
Stand your ground, my ****. This is at most second degree murder. At least voluntary manslaughter by a coward who was looking for trouble, backed by a gun, probably because of an interracial couple.
I'm sure that's what Al Sharpton will surmise when he comes to visit this week, and he may be right.
says HELLOwithSMILE on Jul 29th 18 (#2797595)
The agitated looking arm gestures, which included pointing his finger at her with his arm moving, and stuff.
Yeah, for sure plenty of mistakes were made.
I didn't see any indication that the deceased man wanted to do anything further than shoving Drejka away from his family, myself.
I don't know, of course, if the shooting was racially motivated. If the couple was "interracial" though, it is not evident.
says Piper2 on Jul 30th 18 (#2797645)
I did not see the video. It was not available to me before. I just viewed it.
The couple was not interracial. My mistake.
This was murder.
says HELLOwithSMILE on Jul 30th 18 (#2797662)
2:53am...I've been thinking about this, and it is most bothersome to me.
McGlockton was standing HIS ground as well, was he not? WITHOUT a gun.
McGlockton also has the RIGHT, also by Florida law, to stand his ground, protect his family, and he was killed for it. Drejka had no right to pull a gun. McGlockton was "just standing his ground".
McGlockton made no further aggressive move toward Drejka. In fact, he backed away 3 or 4 steps with his hands in clear view. Drejka's life was in no danger.
Drejka sure got that gun out rather quickly, didn't he? As if he'd been quick draw practicing, or had one of those pop out holsters. Seems to me that he was looking for this "opportunity". He made a heck of a big, lengthy, provocative deal out of a young girl, alone with 3 kids, parking in a HC spot in a wide open parking lot, ranting for minutes. Who does that??
That's why this is murder. There needs to be a trial. This is INSANE!
says HELLOwithSMILE on Jul 30th 18 (#2797697)
I understand....I find it troubling, as well. Did you notice how Drejka pulled right up to their car and parked? It wasn't even a "parking" spot. Seems like he might have stopped just to harass them over their evil transgression.
Yes, he pulled the gun very quickly. If there is no trial in this case, a terrible wrong will be even worse, somehow. :/
says Piper2 on Jul 30th 18 (#2797832)
I see people parking in handicapped spots all the time, and then they run into the store. I think it's disgusting but I would never confront that person in any way, we never know what kind of people we are dealing with anymore.
I think in this situation, the bully was looking for a fight with the woman, and when her husband decided to handle the situation, he was shot and killed. Most people settle arguments with a serious talk or a fight, not with a gun. He should be charged with murder.
says StarzAbove on Jul 30th 18 (#2797728)
Yeah, it is selfish and inconsiderate to do that, and I see it often too. Even if I were going to say something about it, though, it wouldn't be at a convenience store, where people are usually just parked for a minute or two.
I agree that Drejka was looking for a fight, and that this was homicide.
says Piper2 on Jul 30th 18 (#2797836)
Tbh, all three **** up...IMHO. The woman claimed she parked in the handicapped spot because the store was busy, yet the video clearly shows at least four empty spots right in front. Since there's no audio, I do not know what is being said or the manner in which it is being said. Regardless, walking up on the exchange and shoving the guy to the ground was wrong. Still, I cannot justify the man pulling the gun because he was shoved to the ground. It was broad daylight and a shove doesn't constitute fear for life in most situations.
says Bozette on Aug 2nd 18 (#2798926)
Yep, Jacobs surely did lie about that. I've wondered why they even parked in that space, when there were empty spots closer. It does seem to me that Drejka was haranguing her though, based on his body language and hand gestures.
I do agree that shoving him was wrong, as was choosing a handicapped space to park in. Not even a fraction of the wrongness of killing a man over a petty dispute one initiated, of course...not to me, anyway.
I appreciate your opinion, whether it's humble, or not...
says Piper2 on Aug 2nd 18 (#2799043)
Agreed, that doesn't qualify as a SYG defense to my mind.
says Bozette on Aug 2nd 18 (#2799056)
I MIGHT make sure the whole concept of continuing said harassment seems like the stupidest thing they would ever ever do. :)
says DW2 on Aug 3rd 18 (#2799205)
I find it interesting how so many people here are saying "shoved" ... when the story says "slammed to the ground". Those are VERY different things.
However, given the shooter's past actions at that same store ... while they may not be considered for criminal prosecution ... I'm thinking the woman probably has a VERY good case for a CIVIL suit against him.
says Walt_OReagun on Aug 3rd 18 (#2799291)
I can only speak for myself, of course. I'm pretty sure the sheriff who used the words "slammed to the ground" saw the same surveillance video I and others did. Looks to me like McGlockton shoved the guy away from girlfriend, and he fell down. Not such VERY different things to me, but okay....
You're likely right about the civil suit.
says Piper2 on Aug 3rd 18 (#2799317)
My point is that if the guy fell after being shoved, that isn't the same as being slammed to the ground.
The police slam people to the ground. In fact, they seldom shove anyone. If they get "hands on", it's immediate "slam to the ground" time.
Language is used to paint a picture.
Saying "I shoved you" does not paint the same picture (level of violence) as saying "I slammed you to the ground".
says Walt_OReagun on Aug 3rd 18 (#2799328)
Your point has been noted and agreed with, by many of us who heard or read the sheriff's words, and actually watched the video.
The language "slammed him to the ground" in the story, was a quote.
says Piper2 on Aug 3rd 18 (#2799348)
...and that's why you shouldn't take the path of violence, especially in Florida...
The assailant exited the store and immediately assaulted the victim, despite the fact that he was plainly just standing there talking, the victim had no way to know whether he was about to be seriously beaten or killed, so he defended himself. I don't like it, but I understand it. That was a very stupid thing to do in Florida and the assailant paid a terrible price for his folly. Sad.
says Maze on Aug 3rd 18 (#2799388)
I couldn't agree more, that "taking the path of violence" when it's not actually necessary to protect oneself or loved ones is just not 'okay', wherever it is.
We saw the surveillance video very differently, however.
says Piper2 on Aug 4th 18 (#2799431)
This kind of thing happens in NY too.
says Thinkerbell on Aug 14th 18 (#2802516)
I imagine disputes over a parking space getting violent, happen all over the place.
That sure is a sad story you shared.
says Piper2 on Aug 15th 18 (#2802650)
If people would only think of what might happen when you go beyond words and resort to violence.
says Thinkerbell on Aug 15th 18 (#2802680)
Like shoving someone away who is harassing your family, you mean? Yes...I agree that it's always best to not escalate a heated discussion with any kind of violence. Even throwing a container of popcorn at someone who is being verbally harassing to one in a theater, for instance, can result in being fatally shot.
says Piper2 on Aug 15th 18 (#2802711)
Well, there may be more to the popcorn story than just popcorn, at least if Reeves' wife is to be believed.
A trial date has been set for early 2019.
And yes, I think all such cases should go to trial, to get as much of the story determined as possible.
says Thinkerbell on Aug 15th 18 (#2802714)
Not a lot more, except for Reeve's wife rather vague remembrance of what happened before the fatal shooting. Most of that I did already know.
So do I.
says Piper2 on Aug 15th 18 (#2802718)
I would yell at them or call the police, I don't want to be arrested for puttingt my hands on anyone.
says LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred on Aug 18th 18 (#2803445)
says Piper2 on Aug 19th 18 (#2803568)